Muslim suicide bomber in Sweeden

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/world/europe/13sweden.html?src=me

Why do the brits tolerate such hate to breed in their democracy?

Hear him recruit here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8198882/Stockholm-bomber-was-thrown-out-of-Luton-mosque-for-trying-to-recruit-extremists.html

Notice he talks about people drawing mohammed.

G,

Britain doesn't tolerate hate to breed within our democracy anymore than any other nation or country that allows people the right to pursue their own chosen faith, culture or belief system.

In our country, we strenuously safeguard our right to freedom of speech. Within that context, many hate based organisations spring up -- which I guess is human nature. Just like America, we have our own version of far right groups - you have people like the Klan and we have the BNP. Until these groups incite violence, they are not breaking our laws and therefore cannot be prosecuted.

Sure, we could institute a system of incareration and torture for anyone who is suspected of 'potentially' being a dangerous criminal...but this would be against our principles of innocent until proven guilty. We haven't spent years developing a judicial system that is seen to be fair, just to throw it all away as soon as we become a little angry. Our country is not nearly so infantile that all our principles have been built on insecure ground. I know that America has Guantanomo Bay -- but I am sure that you will agree with me when I say that this was and is an aboherrent violation of basic human rights which are set and upheld by most civilised countries. When a person or nation sets out to confront all the threats it faces by employing the very actions it has sought to eradicate for centuries - it becomes no better than the perceived enemy that he or it is fighting against.

Let me put it another way. We know for a fact that every terrorist is firmly against American foreign policy; does that necessarily mean that every person who is against American foreign policy is a terrorist? In that case I would have to be sent to Gunatanomo Bay myself. If we act like this, where will it all end? If we see that a child captures insects and tears their legs off, do we need to imprison that child on the basis that he might turn out to be a serial killer at some point?

Britain is a proud nation. We are proud of the culture of tolerance that we have created through learning from the mistakes that we have made in the past. That is not to say we do not make mistakes anymore, but we do know that we we will not sacrifice years of knowledge, understanding, development and progress because a bunch of savages commit acts of savagery (and by this I don't mean just muslim terrorists - I include far right activists etc). Neither will we shrug off our civilised shell just because another group of savages is calling for us to be more savage in the defence of our nation.

Britiain has become a breeding ground for whacko muslim radicals over the years. This "religion" has been overtaken by people with extreme views and is now a vehicle for terror instead of a religion. The obvious proof is the lack of outrage in the muslim community over the THOUSANDS of innocent people killed by muslims in the name of their war god.

As usual, you reach so hard for similarities that just aren't there. It reminds me of your silly (and proven terribly incorrect) theory that the US invaded Iraq for oil. That was funny watching you and Sylvia opine about how we were going to steal oil. BTW, here is a hint, if Sylvia ever takes your side - question your judgement. If I smoked pot I could make sense of how 9/11 was an inside job and the towers had bombs in them...once I sobered up the facts would be pretty embarrassing though. Look, these Gitmo prisoners weren't judged for potential problems, they were judged for war crimes. The latest case was a child who threw a grenade and killed one of our soldiers. Witnesses were plentiful and the kid was wounded during the conflict. He got 8 years on top of the 8 served. Seems pretty fair to me. There is nothing on "insecure ground" about any of it. Men are going to trial to face adjudication for their actions, just like in any other case. It is democracy. And yes, we are holding them instead of letting them run free because their actions either caused or led in the deaths of innocent people. These men weren't arrested for some conspiracy theory, they were the top killers and leaders of this religious killing machine. Last time I checked, Britain also held people suspected of murder - even when they were innocent until proven guilty. Your double standards = fail. I won't even address the "people against American policy are terrorists" statement - there is nothing correct or logical about such an asinine statement.

While I am all in favor of religious rights, it stops when violence becomes part of your practice. There are limits to freedom of speech - especially with encouraging of hate crimes and violence pandering at the top of the list. This religion still encourages the abuse of women. The facts show that muslims have become a hate group run by the most extreme in their faith. There is no freedom without responsibility. Taking that responsibility is exactly why Gitmo exists. War crimes are completely different than legal crimes. Maybe reading up on Europe's treatment of the Nazis post-war might help you grasp why Gitmo is a better answer to a bigger problem. These aren't random guys taken off a street corner. Our intelligence in warfare isn't perfect - but it is probably the second best in the world (behind Israel with far less to focus on). Most of these prisoners are well-known killers. Your contention that human rights were violated would be logical IF you had expressed similar outrage to all the genocide in Iraq over the years. You can't wax on about a few hundred people being held when it is estimated a million have died in that country from genocide. Obviously you didn't - so please spare me any "look at what the US does" when the acts in this country have been focused on religious violence and oppression for many years. I am not saying our actions are perfect, but our record on world peace is pretty darn good. In fact, I don't see you guys doing much to even promote freedom lately. The muslim north kills millions in Darfur and you worry about a few hundred guys in a US prision? These terrorist are going to trial, and they are getting a fair trial. Please, spare me your laughable judgement and get out there and do something.

Here are two great articles about the fall of the english influence on the world's democracy.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/100068006/another-muslim-suicide-bomber-slips-through-britains-security-net/

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2010/10/britains_place_world



Of course, logic isn't something you are famous for after the "US invaded Iraq for oil" speech. BTW,

So now and then I get a look in the forum to see that the war in wgc still works well like the fights about peace in the whole world lol

And I see nothing has change.
Isnt a big secret if I say that I dont like the muslims and that i think if they just get the choise all of them are willing to put a bomb between a group of people who doesnt believe on Allah!!!!
I also think they know not better cause that is what they learn if they are little. And later they life for the hate and we chritians are nothing for them...So it is easy for them to get more and more terrorits overall.
We should not sit in fear now ( then still that what they want in moment) they want that all has fear about a new 911.

And even to bring the world in fear is a act of terorismus!!
But why gusel do you think only america try to stop that??? Not only america soldier are dies in Afganisthan for the peace. And Iam happy that next year the german soldiers comes home !! This war was good for nothing !!!!!!!!
Every Country has much work with all the terror around the world ..Not only america.
At last a war cant help to get a peace ....just more hate !

And I must not agree to Nathan ,,I think much more radikaler about the Muslims like Nathan ever did.

I think we has so a different cultur to them that it is simple best not to try to life with them...I will not understand the thinking of them and they will never understand the free thought we like to have and to life .. And if i see how the the muslim women's get suppress then Iam sorry for them..but aslong the women not stand up in front of the men and says= stop we are not cheap slaven ...aslong you cant help them.

Other think is that america give the whole world a diktat how to act with them ...and that not ok too. America start to give commands like a Diktatur... ( who isnt for and with us.....is automatily agaisnt america)

And that mr legend isnt a right way too.
And yes still I think America does wars for oil !!!!!

Get a look to the climateconferens ....you noticed that america is against all thinks who would make the clima better? That America and china more then all other work on the globalwarming ??

And that the rest of the politiker can say what they want ...but America say no ?

That is for me also a act of terrorismus....You guys attack the air !!!!

og that sound a bit silly and i get a laugh here too in moment ....But at last it shows what i will say = America tells the world how to act or not to act!!!
And America int always right with all thing.

Lets get another look to China and the nobel prize for Liu Xiaobo!
Can we agree that it is bad of china to blook every Information ,,that he sit in prision , that his friends and his wife get problems and that the whole folk cant say what they want ? Isnt that very bad and very sad??

And now lets look to the Wikileaks affaire!!!!!!!

Whatever Assange did say or did,,,is has blames america ( I must admit so far I got many laughs about the comments of many politiker lolol )

And now act obama like China it does...!!! You guys want this men dead only cause he did something what has brings america in a light you not kike there...


But is it a act of democratie ? We get a global cyberwar only cause he give some trues out.!!!

What need America to hide? A new watergate?

China close website's that the folk dies stupid and America does zackly the same now !!!!

So if America in this point act with force......why will you tell me that america is always the good one who work only for the worldpeace...


Wake up !!!!!!!! the humans are like sharks....only a few are was only good.....

And now you can tell me that the krauts hasnt a idea of a peace................ I hasnt a recipt to get a healty world ...but i get sick if you tell us that America make all right!!

Maybe we can agree to listen to every site and to try to understand the other sites...and not for all things to get a gun, knife or a bomb!!!


heh Sylvia

All I can say to your rebuttal G...is LOL

Yeah there is a whole load of logic in your hate-filled diatribe on just about anyone who isn't American.

I won't even dignify that heap of garbage with a response unless you can frame it in a less extremist way. Really, I feel a little terrorised by your opinion you terrorist : )

However, on the issue of telling me to go out there and do something, I will ask...wtf are you doing exactly?

And Syl....as far as your post goes....I agree...FREE ASSANGE!!!! and then drop ALL the charges. Assange has provided us with the best investigative journalism we have seen for years. Sure as hell beats the propogandist rubbish that Legend obviously is subjected to on a daily basis.

heh

We are euro's and thats why we know about free thought, free Opinion and we are not brainwashed ....so we see if politiker want to telll us shit.
We falls not to the propaganda ...and I hope for the Legend that he ever open his eyes to see the true.

syl

How sad that you think my reply is about anti-American attitudes. My reply is about the lack of action in Britain that has led to a hotbed of criminal terrorist activity. Even european news reports agree with my observations. I guess reading comprehension was a low priority at your school. I never mentioned anti-American attitudes. The point was precise and simple: "Britiain has become a breeding ground for whacko muslim radicals over the years". Not only is that logical, it is accurate according to many reports.
A quote from one of my articles you apparently never read:
"The suicide bomb attack in the Sweden at the weekend provides yet another unwelcome reminder of how Britain has become a safe-haven for would-be suicide bombers. By all accounts Taimur Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, the main suspect in the suicide attack that injured two people in Stockholm, spent several years studying at Luton, a town which was recently identified by British security agencies as being a major recruiting ground for Islamist extremists."
How about a new quote that almost uses my exact same words:
"Britain has always prided itself on opening its doors to dissidents, even of the most radical nature. This tradition has its virtues: it enabled revolutionaries such as Karl Marx to study and develop radical theories of history and human society, but it also meant that during the 1970s the terrorist Carlos the Jackal moved freely in and out of Britain.
I am not condemning the idea of the open society, but alongside freedom sits responsibility. When freedom of expression is abused by the preachers of hate — either racial or religious — then the state has a responsibility to act."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7017718.ece
Here is another:
"But moderate Muslims in Luton, where Iraqi-born Taimour Abdulwahab lived for almost ten years, claim the authorities are to blame for turning a blind eye to the activities of hard core jihadi sympathisers in the area."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8211534/Outlawed-Islamic-group-recruits-near-Swedish-suicide-bombers-Luton-home.html

Just use that awesome American invention Google...it will help you see the facts (and logic) are on my side.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=british+muslim+terrorism

So now I wonder, are you just that stupid...or did you not read the articles? Either way I am very embarrassed for you.

Syl, my dear friend, I will also ask you...please show me where I said only America was fighting terrorism. Please make it the first part of your reply to me. Please use my words, preferably in a quote. If you can't find such a statement, please STFU.

Secondly, please show me some proof from a reliable news company that says the US took oil from Iraq during the war. Do you remember making that statement to me? You have every right to believe we invaded Iraq for oil, that 9/11 was a government job and the aliens gave you an anal probe - but without facts, your diatribe is just a your opinion. We (and apparently that means only me) are trying to use facts here. Not opinions. That is why I used UK quotes in the first place.

I have no idea where you get your idea that countries have to follow US theory or they become an enemy. I can tell you that it is NOT the feeling in this country. There is no talk like that in the US. None. We even tolerate the French.

I don't like to go off subject, but I will reply to two other points you make.

First, on climate control, I agree with you. The US should do a much better job leading by example. The problem I have is that the facts don't support your theory. We have very tight and controlled research on pollution in the US. China and India have little or none of this testing. I have been all over the US and to many parts of China and I can tell you that there is no way to even compare the two. Almost every day in coastal China you can't see the sun from pollution. 70% of their country has no trash service, so tires and plastics are just burned. This does not excuse the US of so much pollution - but it isn't fair for one country to have good testing and the other countries have nothing. That gives improper results. Don't you remember China closing all the factories around Beijing before the Olympics so it wouldn't be so dirty - and tourists STILL thought it was bad. The solution is for each country to pressure itself from its citizens. I can tell you that I recycle. I drive a motorcycle that gets over 40mpg and I don't drive my truck unless it is needed. I am looking at solar power for my house. I embrace nuclear power. I am doing things that have an impact. As a country we could do better, but signing a form that is meaningless is not a good indication of anything on pollution. BTW, please post your cars so we can judge how good they are for the environment.

Second off subject remark, Wikileaks. Who said the US was trying to kill this man? Again, I ask for reliable proof. I am quite sure we have enough agents in the world we could have killed him by now if we wanted. Don't you think other countries might want him dead for publishing some of these documents? In America, we have much more freedom than many of the other leaders have in their country. I wonder if you understand the situation. There are hackers helping and hurting this cause. Some people see him as a hero, some as a traitor. All he did was publish US military secrets that were given to him. I am sure you would want that done to Germany, right? I mean, there is no way Germany has spies or tries to influence government leaders....is there? The point here is that his actions are questionably criminal. In our democracy, a business can choose to not do business with you if they think it is bad for them. Even the Swiss closed his account because he lied about citizenship. Of course he is unpopular in the US, but more so is the soldier that gave him the information. That is the real criminal. Do you actually read American news reports? I highly doubt it from your attitude. I think Americans are more embarrassed that the information was leaked - not what was actually leaked. Nobody I know wants him dead. Some people think of him as a criminal here, some think of him as a hero. Anon and 4chan were started in the US - so don't forget many of the people defending him by hacking are American.

Lastly, I really find it odd that you say "We are euro's and thats why we know about free thought, free Opinion and we are not brainwashed". If you read the articles I post, you will see that free opinion is exactly what is hurting London with all the muslim activity. As I said before, there is no freedom without responsibility. Encourage free thoughts, but not those that endanger others or lead to hate speech. As I recall, your country fell to Nazi propaganda not that long ago - you might want to consider that before you judge too harshly.

I think Legend you automatically make the assumption that when someone disagrees with you they are not as well informed as you. Let me enlighten you on two basic facts: first, I live in London and secondly I take a keen interest in current affairs. As to your suggestion that I am possibly stupid - is that a demonstration of your outstanding logic? If your case can only be argued through the use of aggression, insult and sophistry - what does that say about your argument? Of course I read the articles you cited, are you trying to tell me that these articles are the definitive view of the situation? Are you really - within the boundaries of your supreme logic - trying to suggest that there are NO alternative viewpoints? If you are - then I have to disagree with you. For every extreme point of view you can provide, I will provide you with several differing viewpoints. So, tell me, what makes these articles and viewpoints that you provide so undeniably accurate when compared to others?

However, since the tone of your second post was more acceptable to me - I will offer a response. Let me first remind you that Britain has also been attacked by terrorists. The London bombings were horrific and has left a lasting impression on us all. So...ask yourself why would a nation of people who have been attacked by terrorists be lenient to terrorists?

The answer is...we are not. Take for example the case of Abu Hamza al-Masri - were we lenient towards him? I tried to explain to you why the British sensibility will not allow for intolerant actions without due process. We are a nation with a history of conquest and colonialisation - our society has evolved into one that places a high regard to personal freedom and justice. If you asked 1000 random British people in London how they feel about the 'War on Terror' you will get a response of utter disrespect for the concept. Our government has already taken us into one war where there was no tangible evidence to support an invasion. Tony Blair is still being investigated for his role in misleading the Brtish people in his case for the war with Iraq.

So here we have it - the war against terror, the war in Iraq, Guantanomo Bay etc - these things all feed the attitude and behaviour of the British people. We view it all, and unlike you, we are able to see our own errors in the process. Since we have evolved into a nation which doesn't like to make errors when it concerns human life and human rights, we do not rush in to action which almost certainly will be proven to be the wrong kind of action in the long run. We work things through a well established judicial system and do not create new laws as kneejerk reactions to events (e.g. the Patriot Act).

It is somewhat amusing where you say that even other European countries look to our tolerance with some disdain. I will illustrate my amusement through an example. I mentioned earlier the case of Abu Hamza al-Masri - this man we imprisoned and we were going to have him extradited to the US to answer further charges of terrorist activity. Get this - The European Court of Human Rights said that it would not allow Masri to be extradited to the United States to face terrorism charges. Is that an example of Britain being more lenient than other European countries? Please try to consider the facts before you engage in an argument in the future. When I say facts, I don't mean some obscure articles by people who share your hatred and angst without any attention to due process and reason.

Legend, I really think you are old enough to be able to hear points of view that are different to your own without getting frustrated and confused. If you were in England, I would be calling out for your arrest as a person who spreads hate and incites violence. By our laws you would be eligible for investigation at least. You can call as many people as you like stupid because they won't fall in line behind your crackpot ideas and propagandist notions - but don't forget that we think you are stupid too. I guess it all boils down to who is proven stupid in the long run. In the discussions we had some years ago regarding Iraq, I think you'll agree that you were thoroughly stupid then and have been proven wrong beyond doubt. I think the same will be proven to be the case with this argument too.

whats with you legend???

Iam tired of this shit in the net!!!!
Let me make it short i I swear i could writen a book too here like you and nathan !
IF I say something about America ..why do you tae it personal ? If i talk of Amercian shit then it isnt a attack against you !
You isnt America like me not is Germany and nathan isnt Limeyland !!!!
Why do you so stubborn believe in your whole goverment?? I admit has vote for Angela Merkel but jesus ...I wont always agre to all what us politiker do or say!!!!
I agree that the mislims are crap and that they should stop bombing around the world..I hate that they bring the whole world in fear...but gusel we can piss them in the face ..if a muslim comes near of you,,,but you cant shoot them all and you cant make a war with all countrys who has muslims ..that pretty wrong !!!!
and let me short say what to your car...
I got fun here and must laughed !!!
You doesnt care the air of the world if you drive not your car and only more your motorbike !!
you love to drive the motorbike more and you save your money for ohter things!!
thats the true!!!
you doesnt sit and think= i dont drive my car cause the kraut sylvia need fresh air and i will that the ocon get healty for us all lolol
We could maybe talk why bush was befriend with Obama and why bush got so rich with the armsbuisness lolol
You will prolly tell is a lie too
If america go out of Afgahistan you will go to iran !
America need these wars or your present need 10 more mashine who prints the Dollar!!!
A war brings much money for the arms.. and these people has a big lobby around the world ...
I still get right now a laugh with the thought that you get out of your chair cause i said that just
hehehehehe

America is beside some big citys ...a poor big big country where the most people are not has visite enough schools,,where the people life poorly ,, the most in america cant read and writen ..go to your president and bring that in order !!!
and then you guys in america can get a individual opinion and not all only brainwashed!!!

amen und xo heh

Sylvia

heh

I give myself a 9.99999 for pissing of all Yanks !!!!!

greetings

Queen of all lamers

My favourite bit was...

'amen und xo'

heh, classic!!!