Libya ...

Since this thing is seen by everybody everywhere ,,i would like to post what i think .Actually many of you wil be disagree as usual but since here was discussed so serious subjects thinks this one needs same attention .me personally i dont take easy all information about in in all international medias .I dont get impressed by the words from some americans and earopian leader4s for the crimes against humanity that they perpetuated against 150,000 innocent Iraqi civilians when they waged an illegal war against Iraq and bombed it.And in the end was that there ,nu8clair bombes.Of course there is no doubt about that rigth now in Libya is BIG conflict ,but why i have the feeling that this will end like that -The court will sue Quadafi for genocid ,their army wil eneter Lybia and bombed like they did in Iraq ? Could be that western propaganda in is attempt to sway world opinion in order to be able to justify a full scale invasion of Libya by foreign forces and western interests and then afterwards share their oil and corner all the business opportunities that are there.
The issue here is not whether Ghadafi is good or evil.I am not fan of him ,his people dont want him ,his time prolly is gone after 40 years .
From another side lets see this :unlike the cases of Tunisia and Egypt, the relationship that exists between Qaddafi and both the U.S. and E.U. is somehow different . Qaddafi is an independent Arab dictator and not a “managed dictator” like Ben Ali and Mubarak.Who likes somebody who is independant-for sure not USA .So here are my questions -Why Usa are they not caring for Zimbabwe where Mugabe has reduced his people to poverty of the highest order? Why did they not invade Rwanda even in the glearing eyes of the world where killings took place on an unimaginable scale? Because those countries have nothing to offer to my simple opinion ....How rich is Libya as a country ?is considered like rich cause :third largest oil producer in Africa, after Nigeria and Angola, it has Sirte basin, which is the biggest backer Libyan oil production. The basin contains 44 billion barrels or about 80 percent of the country’s oil reserves. Basin is the largest reserve in Africa Lybian oil is famous for Light Sweet type with low sulfur content. Crude oil is ideal processed into gasoline and diesel. Although no official data, it is estimated nearly 95 percent of oil and natural gas production exported Libya.BUT about a third of Libya’s population live in poverty.So Lybia has a lot to OFFER but her own people are poor cause the regyme of Qaddafi .
i do not trust anything lately in news ..thinks most is some kind of propaganda ......i can go further in my thoughs to say isnt in the end of all another counrty who is much richer and much independant from the WEST -IRAN ?But some wil say thats different but why i have the feeling Iran is not ....But for Iran ands USa relation wil need new post cause there i have a lot to say ..
Do you some of you feel what i wanted point in this post ?Who will win from the civil war in Lybia ?Any suggestions ?

I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with a lot of what you just wrote Maggie.

May I present the Libya situation in a slightly different way though?

The current situation in Libya is happening because the people of Libya have had enough of Qadafi, not because of any Western desire to topple him. Events in Egypt, Bahrain and Tunisia have spurred the people of Libya to have hope and confidence in ousting a dictator that has dictated over them for over 4 decades. In such circumstances, I doubt if we, the West, have any plans for invasion of Libya. We can only be involved at a humanitarian level - picking up the pieces of the carnage that Qadafi causes before he is found hanging from a lampost somewhere in Tripoli.

However, you are right about the oil reserves in Libya. It is rich in oil...and it is flat lol...so easy digging. Over the years, Qadafi has been quite good for us - despite being a bastard for his own people. We haven't had a problem with that. We have happily cultivated our relationship with him in return for significant investments in his country. I actually find it quite amusing to see our aristocracy and industrial class scurrying around trying to protect their investments but not knowing how to go about doing it.

Libya is heading towards democracy Maggie. The funny thing is....we - The West - can't do a fking thing about it. We've been banging on the democracy drum for so many years now that we are caught in a trap of our own making. The people of Middle Eastern and North African dictatorships are now deposing their dictators -- and instilling democracy into their countries. Democracy in these countries almost certainly means Islamic governments...and that is not palatable for us Westerners.

Isn't it funny? Democracy in these countries...without our western puppets to sustain our investments...we don't want that!!

My reply is not so much on Libya but on...

Quote :

Why Usa are they not caring for Zimbabwe where Mugabe has reduced his people to poverty of the highest order? Why did they not invade Rwanda even in the glearing eyes of the world where killings took place on an unimaginable scale?

Unless there is a US business or economic interest affected at the outset, a country’s internal problems do not get on the US radar screen. Why did Rwanda pass unnoticed? There were no significant US business interests affected by events there. Why did the US invade Iraq? Simple economics ... US business interests stood to benefit enormously and huge strategic resources were involved.

We live in an interesting culture ... we don’t have overt censorship, but certain ideas are not expressed, or when certain ideas are expressed, they are instantly muffled in waves of silence. They don’t penetrate consciousness. The US invaded Iraq because of its oil, and will hang on (“stay the course”) because that oil is too important to leave under control of others. It’s that simple, but in the realms of debate surrounding Iraq, the word 'oil' has hardly been mentioned. Interesting, to say the least.

The situation in Zimbabwe provides an excellent example of how U.S. foreign policy should operate all over the world.

What should the U.S. government do in this horrific situation? Should it invade and occupy Zimbabwe? Should it attempt a regime-change operation? Should it assassinate Mugabe? Should it impose sanctions and embargoes? Should it buy Mugabe off with foreign aid?

The answer is: None of the above. It is no more business of the U.S. government to intervene in the affairs of Zimbabwe, no matter how horrible conditions are there, than it is for, say, the Swiss government to do so.

The same policy of non-intervention (i.e., no invasion, occupation, or assassination) that Americans embrace for Vietnam, North Korea, China, and Zimbabwe should be applied to every country on earth. The time has come for the American people to end the U.S. government’s role as the world’s international policeman and welfare provider, a role that inevitably only makes a bad situation worse.

Awesome post meety!!

Of course they don't intervene with full force in Zimbabwe or Rwanda....or Somalia, Sudan etc. There is nothing in it for them!!! Their profile was also very low during the problems in Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia - where ethnic cleansing was going on. And of course, as you say, there's the human rights violations in China...not even a sanction for that. Poking fun at North Korea and calling them names doesn't really compare to the action taken in Iraq.

So the reason for attacking Iraq was....Sadam Hussain was a bad man...we buy that...NOT!!!!

It is either because it's a muslim country...or, as you suggest, there is something to be gained.

But shhh....please....this is usually the part where Legend will go off on some paranoid rant about muslims hiding under his bed plotting to kill him in his sleep!!!

Yes, of course....the United Nations is guilty of non-intervention. But then...the United Nations would not have intervened in Iraq, with regards to War, had the legal process of waiting for resolutions been adhered to. As I am aware, the United Nations as a whole, generally favours sanctions over direct intervention.

But I don't think the post was about non-intervention per se. I understood it to be about when a nation intervenes and in which type of circumstances. In particular - why do some countries intervene...and the charge is levelled that they intervene to protect their own material interests under the disguise of humanitarian interests.

It will be interesting to see how events unfold now in Zimbabwe...now that the fields of diamonds has been discovered. I would like to predict a higher level of Western involvement in Zimbabwe over the coming years than has ever been seen before. I've already heard - hitherto silent voices - saying that Mugabe is a very bad man. Well Duh!!!

Well..
Imagine my surprise to come into this topic thinking it would be something of intelligence relating to some of the positives happening in Libya and finding that to not be the case at all. Instead what do I find? Yet another post about how America is bad. Hilarious. It really is my own fault, I should have known better to expect anything different when I saw who started the topic. It really was not about Libya at all.

In this particular topic...you'll find...I hope...that I have been very careful not to mention America individually. The Libya situation isn't about the USA. British hands are dirty in this instance...after all...

We (Scotland) allowed a Libyan plane bomber to go free in a ploy to foster better trade links with Libya. I know the Scots had better intentions than the English government itself did. Now...I may agree with the release of the chap based on humanitarian grounds (he is dying of cancer), but I am aware that it wasn't humanitarian grounds that prompted my government to secure his release. British hands are equally dirty in the context of other African nations - Zimbabwe being a particular example.

When it comes to intervention or lack of intervention...it would be quite unfair to single out America as the only nation that acts selfishly. Everyone does to varying degrees.

As you state....there are many positives to the current circumstances in Libya. But it is unavoidable, during this current state of flux in countries like Libya, Egypt, Bahrain etc - to underestimate the impact of capitalist opportunists and the damage they could do with their intervention. I think it is fair in this debate to raise the issue of hypocrisy when 'people' try to justify their intervention or lack of it.

I stay gone for a few months and I return to the same thing.

Simon, I have to say I agree with your post. The ignorance I have seen about the US is not only stunning, but embarrassing for the people that post here. It is just another reminder of why I don't miss this group. Bigots are not open to intelligent discussion and any effort you make will fall on deaf ears. Sadly, I see no difference between Games, Jan, Meet or Space anymore. The lies and deceit in this group are comical. At least with Dave, you knew from the beginning you couldn't trust him.

I don't want this to sound harsh, just honest. I encourage you just to leave (or just come in every few months like I do). Any effort you make to support America will always be reduced to someones opinion about oil or politics or wealth...or just plain jealousy. There is nobody with an open mind here.

Yeah ok....that made sense!

One of these days you may just read one of the posts before you respond.

Nathan and maggie, you make it sound like a bad thing if America gets involved to protect its interest and you make it sound like a bad thing if America doesn't get involved. Simon and Legend are correct. You and others here love to take any topic, and find some way to point a finger at the USA and say "see??? you guys are doing it again" You fail to understand that a government is a business, plain and simple. If we wanted to be an organization that came to the rescue of every country every time some disaster struck, we would have created an organization like the Red Cross or Peace Corp.
Stop looking to the US government to come to the rescue every time some messed up 3rd world govt starts killing its citizens. Its not our problem any more than its Bulgarias problem or Spains problem.
And please, stop hating on the USA.

Simon as usual i start such a topics and i dont see nothing wrong with it .We have different opinions ..YOu ,G ,hearts you all are americans .of course you will replay all what you post here .And i have the opposite opinion about your country .I ever hided it i shoot directly what i think .I think all of what i post here ..all negative things about USa are truth in my view .You cant change this .I read a lot about it .i watch a loot about it .I been in Middle east many times so could see that for me I AM NOT wrong about USA .Eeverywhere in EVERTHING about everthing USA wil invade or put some f reason to bomb some country .Then peopel like you come online or talk in real and etc that USA is sthe greatest country helping !!Thats what i find for annoying .
G i wouldnt call the different opinion an ignorance .I even think that people who suport what USA is doing thats is ignorance ..but well you all know what i think now .
heartss USA EVER protect somebodys else interest until is not about american interests.YOU dont have to ever get near Middle east ..so dont f tel me you are protecting civils people .YOu have interest of every war somewhere .Are people from Middle east invading you ( as you say helping ) when you started the phinance crise from which now whole world is suffering ?DID some middle east president said "lets go in USA and bomb them to learn how to make their politic " ?DID somebody from east bombed you when YOU killed so many people with diffefrent kind of skin then yours ?
we al know the answer .

Once again maggie, you don't read other peoples posts, you interpret it in your own way. I already agreed that the USA takes care of its interest. And yes, there are at least a dozen middle eastern countries that would love to take a big chunk out of the US, whether that be actually attacking us or hurting our economy. Why does the middle east feel this way? I dunno, could it be because they are mostly muslim countries, spoon fed hate against the US since birth? I dunno...just a thought. So stop your babbling. This is why you will never learn, your mind is closed. Sad.

G ,
I dont see what the trust have with the different opinion about USA .YOu can like people have fun with them and they can be NOT fans of american politic.How this is effecting the trust ?let me put it with example - I have talked with you years and years .We discussed many things .. .We could talk for different things and avoiding the subject Usa or religion and still have fun .YOU know what i think ..i do know what you think ..what this have with trusting somebody ?The moment when i stopped see things liek that was when you started come on and always put on me all your hate for musilms .thats where you crossed the limit .Actually if you have to be honest you wil notice that Space and Meetme have puted their opinions in a very specific way NOT directly attacking USA .Somwhow saving hard words .Somehow trying not to be so extreme in their post rigth ?I am the person who put my views in one sided way with words without to save or try to be not so attacking USA .You know how many times Space have told me that i have extreme views ...but i dont see it in this way .Actually some times i was telling him that he is just being so much in the middle ...like his post here where he didnt go agaisnt USA so strong .I think also G that from the moment when you know people on you know their views about politics .(so i meant is that new what Space post for you now ) .How they become like Games and Jan cause their "soflty : opinions?
Comon G do you choice people to have fun depending from their opinion about your f great country ?Or people different then your skin ?or people different then your religion ?Do you really call this ignorance for not sharing your point of view about USA ?
Will now Simon become your best friend for sharing same opinion like you about USA ?
I cant get that seriously ...in my real life .two of my best friends are f fans of USA !!! we know what we think we discussed it ...from years we dont open this subject .I will do everthing for each other if they ask me NO matter of their politic views ..and they will do same for me .

hearts hush ...i typed so much now ..give me break heh
PS people did you read my first post ?wasnt i rigth what will happend now in Lybia ?they took desicison for "helping "them .so tell me that now they Usa and Europe wont bomb whole country pretending they are helping .sad

America is playing a very canny game indeed. It knows that being in the vanguard in yet another Muslim country in order to pursue its strategic interests will isolate it further, cost it more, and reduce its influence more rapidly, than if it appears to be a reluctant guest at a democratic party.

Russia and China no longer see a balance of power in the Middle East as being of much significance to them. The energy game is changing. Russia is stronger, America weaker, and China more needy than they were 10 years ago. At the same time, the Chinese economy will soon be bossing the world as the American economy has done since WW2. America and China will need to deal with their political differences directly with one another, rather than through the proxies of Middle Eastern influence.

Put all this together. The Arab League supports the no-fly zone. America can play the part of supporter rather than instigator. Hey presto, a no-fly zone is agreed in record time.

Don’t think I’m being cynical. If I were, I might also point out that Britain and France both need some external distractions just now. Protecting endangered Libyans might be just the ticket.

Isn't it amazing?

It seems that people from just about every other nation are ready to be critical of the actions of their Governments -- except....yes you guessed it...except some of our American cousins over the great pond. Reading the nonsense on this forum one could quite easily come away with an impression that all Americans are defensive and in denial about the actions of their country. Fortunately, I know this isn't true...just like I know that every Muslim isn't a terrorist, I also know that not every American has bought into the claptrap fed into them by their propoganda machine. After all...just look at most conspiracy theories (e.g. 9/11) ...they are generally initiated by Americans themselves. Unfortunately, those particular Americans are not represented on this forum. Damned shame.

It seems that any discussion of world politics leads to an assertion that...'You are all America-Haters'. Which is really quite bizarre. If you go to watch a play or film...do you come out of it talking about the main characters and their influence on the story, or do you discuss the actions of the peripheral characters? Does this mean that you hate the character...or that you are merely analysing the character's impact on the plot? Since America plays such a pivotal role in world affairs -- isn't it fair that their actions, motivations and intentions are discussed?

But no, there seems to be a feeling that you should supress your opinions about America's role to be sensitive to other peoples' paranoia. Well here's how it is for me! No, my opinions won't be supressed by the endless whining of..'You hate America'. If that's the perception...then so be it. I come from a true democracy where all opinions are shared and discussed - not dictated by the agenda of a dominant ideology. I feel almost blessed that I can have different opinions and not be brow beaten into accepting somebody else's badly argued and ill-informed perspective.

Comically, it seems that the most ardent poster of hatred and malice is also the one who whines the most about people hating America. Legend....you are a joke. Your views are ridiculously biased. You are a caricature of american political opinion. I read your hogwash with the same contempt with which I watch Fox News (which I do so that I can be informed of how ridiculous opinions can get). Start trying to deal with the questions before hopping onto your hate trampoline and bouncing up and down like a frantic, narrow minded clown.

As Ordell says to Louis in the film Jackie Brown...'What the **** happened to you, man? Shit, your ass used to be beautiful!'

Agreed space!

A bit of honesty would be so refreshing!

That is all I can say is holy shit. How you guys aren't embarrassed by your posts is honestly stunning to me.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but it should be an informed one. When I come back to read what is posted about America here and I just laugh. Did you see Sylvia talking about the conditions in the US in the other post? We can't read? Really? Was it her or Maggie talking about American hospitals when SP had to correct them? I can't remember, the line is blurred so badly. So sad, especially since Syl has been to the US. Meet says Russia is getting stronger? Wow. My mom just returned from there and the corruption and crumbling infrastructure amazed her. It was her 8th visit in 8 years btw. She went to hospitals to bring supplies because they can't afford to stay open. She said it looked like a WWI hospital. Of course the big cities are thriving with big money, but at the expense of the rest of the country. I love how she is so knowledgeable on US policy too. Apparently she has it all figured out - something no other world leader can accomplish. Space has also gone off the deep end - or either I just noticed it. Of course, all this board has become is him and 2 ladies in a chat basically. He can't grasp the basics. It isn't that I can't be critical of our leadership - its that there are so many fucking stupid comments that I can't even get to real political discussion. I think the pot is frying his brain. I don't have any issue with him questioning if 9/11 was an inside job or that we would take oil from Iraq - but when the facts are so clear and obvious you just have to accept it. There is a great National Geographic show on the 9/11 conspiracy theory btw and it exposed how much research was put into studies on the fall of the towers. It reminds me of the whole moon conspiracy theory - interesting but the facts just don't support it. At some point you can't fall for every alien abduction/government plot without some real proof. Get to the facts so we can discuss from there. And Maggie...poor naive Maggie...where do I even start? Maggie is the most ignorant and the most bigoted of all. I can't exactly respond the way I want because it would expose her personal history, but I know she has more cognitive skills than she is using now. Maggie knows I have muslim friends. She also knows that I hate muslims. How is that possible? What if I can appreciate people for their beliefs - even if it is different from my own. What if my muslim friends don't approve of the barbaric extremist that are dominating their religion? A great recent example was when a local US dumbass burned the koran in Florida. Not nice, but protected under the freedom of speech here. What did the muslims do? The Pakistan interior minister called him a terrorist and they killed 12 innocent UN members. Maggie is always outraged at the US or Israel, but never does she discuss the weekly deaths from the violent members leading her religion. I just can't take anyone serious who defends these goat-fucking cowards who kill innocent people over and over in the name of her religion. Mohammed was a camel jockey who robbed people in the desert. The son of an affair. He married a 6 year old when he was 50. It doesn't make him evil - but to kill in this man's name shows how fucked a religion can be. I don't know of many people that kill in the name of Jesus. We don't have jihiads. We don't get 40 virgins for killing in the name of our religion.

Space, I think your focus is off target. It isn't that I can't be critical of the US, but calling it a "propoganda machine" is just funny and takes away any credibility you have. As a world leader our moves and motives should be discussed, but if you want to be taken seriously, then make informed and intelligent posts. It reminds me of a little dog barking as the big dogs fight. It is real easy to be mouthy when you never take the lead. The current situation in Libya would be a great talking point. The US waited to invade and tried to have limited involvement, but now we are asked to bring in our firepower again because the French and British can't handle it (or don't want to). See, the thing is that I don't care if you hate America or not. I don't hate other countries even though many take advantage of the US. Your opinion is quite incorrect. Nobody is brow beaten in the US - in fact, we have set the standard for freedom since breaking off from England and the wig wearing. We have Fox, CNN, MSNBC...all very diverse in their opinions. Oddly enough, you expose yourself the best with your bigotry when you call my opinions (and Fox) hogwash. I don't think your opinions are worthless, but since they are FACTLESS, I don't have much respect for them. That is the difference.

In conclusion I am basically talking to 3 people on this board.
1) Meet : someone who talked very badly about me to Maggie and told her very wrong and very bad things about me. The funny part is that Maggie knows that she can trust me even to this day. I have proven my trustworthy nature to many throughout the years, with you guys never having a clue about who I really was as a person. I don't think Meet is a bad person by any means, but I wonder how she lives with such a burden on her heart that there are so many conspiracies out there. Maybe the US is trying to help people and she can't see it. Maybe we are going about it the wrong way. Either way it is hard to take her serious when she is negative so much. I couldn't live that way.
2) Maggie : the most sincere of anyone out of our group. I admire her for that, even though her jealousy for the US is hard to deal with. Maggie and Syl are very similar (which will piss both of them off) in many ways. Headstrong, passionate and neither is nearly as worldy as they imagine. What I like about Maggie is that she knows exactly how I feel about her situation and how she feels about mine. While Maggie and I fight the most about religion, she knows we can talk as friends on intimate matters without judgement. (Yes, she wears a thong.) Maggie was the only one that could have talked me into even coming back to any card room - and she did so without sending a nude pic.
3) Space : one of the people I have known the longest out of this group. Space and I are very similar and different at the same time. I think we share that we are more economically privileged than most out of our group. His sense of humor is/was above average and he didn't like to lose. The differences were how we treated people. I made hider nics to avoid perm bans, he used them to farm information. I wouldn't have stood cm up at the airport because my word means more to me and I respect her too much. That doesn't make me better, just different. I told her upfront I wasn't going to meet her on vacation. I made up a personna (or two) over the years to cover my identity after I saw what happened early on (thanks Mad). I lied about my name (thankfully) because I was lucky enough to learn early not to trust people. I never allowed myself to expose my private life - which takes courage (ask Lake). I enjoyed Space's conversations in the rooms because it was intelligent, funny and witty. Now it is just like bitter old lady talk. The whole conspiracy theory/propoganda machine talk is so factless that it seems almost childish to even discuss it. Don't get me wrong, I love childish humor, but mostly at the expense of Capt or boxwine Nanashi. It just seems to fit their intelligence level better.

We broke apart as a group for many reasons. I know I don't enjoy what has turned from good discussions into jaded and bigoted remarks. I wonder if others are as equally turned off. As I said before, being a world leader puts you in a situation where you have to make decisions - and not all of them are correct. It is easy to be the little yapping dog on the sideline. Just watch the Nat Geo special on how physically impossible it would be to cause the towers to fall - and the actual real reason they did. It makes life so much easier when you rely on facts and not rhetoric.

I am at a loss regarding your statement Legend and I quote:

Quote :

Meet : someone who talked very badly about me to Maggie and told her very wrong and very bad things about me. The funny part is that Maggie knows that she can trust me even to this day.

I am putting this in an open forum and I challenge you Legend and maggie as to what I have said that has been so offensive.

My dad.. a magnificently unreasonable person.. is a master of the art of the rant. Some years ago.. on a day when he had gone about as far over the top as a person can go.. he paused and said.. “That’s how I see it. You might see it differently.”

I absolutely love this phrase.. and I try to use it often. I’m pretty sure these ten words alone could solve most of the suffering that plagues us.. war..famine..etc. They let you take a stand...even an outrageous stand..without claiming you’re the sole owner of The Truth.

Be bold. Take a position. Then greet differing opinions with a generous... confident spirit. Not only will your work get more interesting.. but you’ll mark yourself as a trustworthy person with strong opinions.. who values debate without being threatened by it.

This is an interesting issue that is going to see a lot of overreaction.

your post impress me really G ,
you know how to come back dont you ?So long nothing and suddenly great come back .Typical in your style .
But let me tell you you are TOTALY wrong about most things you have said about me .No matter my personal life and history ..i dont think somehow is influencinng my opinion cause i am not a robot ..my mind works in its own ,prolbably i had to do many things and doing which i dont want ,but i can think myself .And here in net trust me i show a lot of it cause i am just a Pc .So means everthing what i say here is what i think.I dont like USA not cause i accepted islam ,is cause what i see is doing over the world .Why you cant see that ,many people who arent musilms think same ."What if I can appreciate people for their beliefs - even if it is different from my own." -you kidding me G dont you ?How you can say that when me personaly i saw a lot from you ??YOu dont apprceiate nobody different from your skin and religion .Aftre so many years talking to you every day i was seeing that you just cant accept that i am musilm .Then i give up .yeah is true -i trust you until now and however is funny this do you think that now .....after all what you have said to me the fact that i trust you cost something ?We dont talk friendly from long time G either discuss something now cause i just give up .Just thats not the fun for me to be attacked for my belifes dialy from somebody who pretend is friend .Naive isnt it ..well f then i am .You feel for my situation you know why G cause this is how you feed your hate ,but i noticed it too late .before all this to become so big thing every day i HAD great fun with you .
You know G people change ,life is changing ,situations are changing ....there is no group anymore here ..TO many things been said ,too big words been typed ,too many attcks ,too different opinions -too different people .I realised thay my place is not here long time ago .Now i dont come online much not cause that ,just have some changes in my life .
But i know one thing ....i been close to some people ...i saw them different when i become closer .
And G dont forget .all people you have trashed in your post been your friends ,...you just have to accept that people have different opinions and think different .G luck with that

maggie4818mag wrote:

And G dont forget .all people you have trashed in your post been your friends ,...

Not all of them.

Whoa Mags....I have to say, I don't feel 'trashed'. Getting called names is fine...hell I do it myself : )

It's sad, but friendships come and friendships go - remember the positives and don't bemoan the loss. I am happy to remember Guesl - who used to make me laugh back in our Deck days. We shared some great moments and I enjoyed his humour. This current character I don't really recognise.

As far as the anlaysis of my character is concerned....did I play with people's minds? Did I 'farm' information? Did I really do these things? OF COURSE I DID! And damned fun times they were too - I wouldn't change a thing : ) If my mischievous actions in an online games room really caused people distress...then boo fking hoo...some people really need to get a reality check.

Did I stand Cmill up at the airport? Well maybe I did - what's done is done. Pretty much like G failing to turn up for Artie one time. I spoke to Artie on Skype about a year ago - he seemed to have forgotten almost everything but THAT. But hey, I wasn't there when G and Artie made their plans - so I don't know exactly what was said. I am sure G will have a million excuses - since that is pretty much what he has become - a windbag of excuses.

As for the other elements in the discussion - simply forget it : ) It's pointless even bringing them up - I'd feel like a Jew standing up against the Wailing Wall in the futile hope that somebody is listening.

Another thing since this become like analyze of some characters i want add something ..
G this G who i used to know before long time ..
from what i know for him ,for what i saw from him before the thing with religion was ...he has some great views about the simple things in the life ,for the love ,for the familly ,for friendships .I liked the way he was talking about al kind of the relation between people .Amazing ..isnt it ..even i could go further and say that i was thinking is worth to meet him in real .Al this G persona in net was for me so funny ..behind it there was a guy who knows what he wants and what he is doing in his life .All his sexual talks didnt fooled nobody think so ...was for fun to get immediately reaction and he used to get it .I used to talk with him for everthing ....when i say everthing means everthing ..and i knew what he was feeling and thinking time back .I liked the way he used to get on a roll for something he felt is wrong and etc ....made me laugh so many times ..his reactions were funny .Then ..well as is all known fact started the thing with the religion .then i saw another side of G which for all these years i havent see it .I refused to accepted it ..until now i dont accept it .I couldnt believe that we could talk with hours for so different things and then one word about me being musilm .ended unreal crap .day by day .week by week and etc ...i realised Thats not G i think i know .I dont pretend i know real G ,i pretend i seen great things by him and like Space says "friendships comes and goes ,whats is done is done "

I am confused. Is Guesl's new nic now Libya? Is that why we are talking about him here? Fine, then my new nic is Belarus. Please refer to me as such from now on. Ty.